Within the next month I will be enrolling in an(other) undergraduate university course. This being the case I must make a selection of both course and major. While I could make such decisions on impulsive unconscious preference satisfaction and guesswork on what subjects happen to provide the most value I could also take the opportunity to address the decision more rationally and objectively. There are some relevant questions to ask that I know LessWrong readers can help me answer.

  1. Which subjects and courses can make the best contribution to Epistemic Rationality?
  2. Which subjects and courses provide the most Instrumental Rationality benefits?
  3. Given all available information about the universe and what inferences can be drawn about my preferences and abilities what course structure should I choose?
  4. Which course do you just happen to like?

1. Which subjects and courses can make the best contribution to Epistemic Rationality?

I happen to care about Epistemic Rationality for its own sake. Both for me personally and in those whom I encounter. It is Fun! This means that I like both to add new information to my Map and to develop skills that enhance my general ability to build and improve upon that map.

Not all knowledge is created equal. While whole posts could be dedicated to what things are the most important to know. I don't want to learn gigabytes of statistics on sport performances. I prefer, and may be tempted to argue that it is fundamentally better, to learn concepts than facts and in particular concepts that are the most related to fundamental reality. This includes physics and the most applicable types of mathematics (eg. probability theory).

For some types of knowledge that are worth learning university is not a desirable place to learn them. Philosophy is Fun. But the philosophy I would learn at university is too influenced by traditional knowledge and paying rent to impressive figures. The optimal  behavior when studying or researching philosophy is not to Dissolve the Question. It is to convey that the question is deep and contentious, affiliate with one 'side' and do battle within an obsolete and suboptimal way of Carving Reality. My frank opinion is that many philosophers need to spend more time programming, creating simulated realities, or at least doing mathematics before they can hope to make a useful contribution to thought. (I'm voicing a potentially controversial position here that I know some would agree with but for which I am also inviting debate.)

There are some subjects that are better served for improving thinking itself as well as merely learning existing thoughts. I'll list some that spring to mind but I suspect some of them may be red herrings and there are others you may be able to suggest that I just haven't considered.

2. Which subjects and courses provide the most Instrumental Rationality benefits?

Fun is great, so is having accurate maps. But there are practical considerations too. You can't have fun if you starve and fun may not last too long if you are unable to contribute directly or financially to the efforts that ensure the future of humanity. Again there are two considerations:

  • What learning facilitates making Instrumentally Rational choices (either in the abstract or practical sense)? The previously mentioned courses are relevant and subjects like game theory naturally spring to mind.
  • What learning actually facilitates achieving something useful or otherwise fulfilling one's CEV? In many cases this will be entirely different to the subjects I have mentioned.

3. Given all available information about the universe and what inferences can be drawn about my preferences and abilities what course structure should I choose?

This is an invitation to Other-Optimize me. Please give me advice. Remember that giving advice is a signal of high status and as such is often an enjoyable experience to engage in. This is also a rare opportunity - you may be patronizing and I will not even respond in kind or with a curt dismissal. You can even be smug and condescending if that is what it takes for me to extract your insights!

Now, I should note that my decision to do another undergraduate degree is in no way based on a belief that it is just what I need to do to gain success. I already have more than enough education behind me (I have previously studied IT, AI and teaching).

  • My source of income is something that I do independently and is not something that university attendance will unduly interfere with (especially since I can take a laptop to lectures).
  • Working entirely independently does not satisfy the human need to be engaged in cooperative endeavor. In the long term this can interfere with both work performance, provoke Akrasia and diminish satisfaction. I do not particularly like working in an office. Studying (and probably tutoring) is ideal.
  • Doing something that you are really, really good at that also gives social recognition is psychologically beneficial. Sitting exams is a more efficient way for me to satisfy the need for recognition than attempting to win at office politics.
  • "Full Time" study is not at all "full time" for me. It is more like a part time hobby.

(Call bullshit on that if you think I am rationalizing or believe there are better alternatives to give me what you infer from here or elsewhere that I want.)

Now, assuming that I am going to be studying an undergraduate course, which course maximizes the expected benefit?

Something I am considering is a double major Bachelor of Science(pharmacology, mathematical statistics). Recent conversations that I have participated in here give an indication as to my existing interest in pharmacology. I have some plans in mind that would contribute to furthering human knowledge on non-patented pharmaceutical substances. In particular life-extension drugs and nootropics. This is an area that I believe is drastically overlooked, to the extent of being species wide negligence. Consider this to be a significant goal that I want my studying to contribute to.

The most effective contribution I can make there will likely involve leveraging financial resources that I earn elsewhere but I mostly have financial considerations covered. I also want to ensure I know what is going on and know what needs to be done at a detailed level. That means learning pharmacology. But it also means learning statistics of some sort. What statistics should I learn? Should I focus on improving my understanding of Bayesian statistics or should I immerse myself in some more ad-hoc frequentest tools that can be used to look impressive?

4. Which course do you just happen to like?

What other subjects are relevant to the sort of concepts we like discussing here? Perhaps something from sociology or psych? I have breadth subjects I need to fill, which gives me the chance to look at some topics in somewhat more depth than just a post (but sometimes possibly less depth than a whole post sequence!) I'm also rather curious which subjects like-minded people just wish they had a chance to study. If you were trapped in the SGC in a groundhog day time loop which topics would you want to learn?

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I kept having nightmares for about a decade after completing my last university course, so I find it hard to understand anyone wanting to go back to school. Ok, now that I've gotten that off my chest...

When I visited SIAI a few months ago, I participated in drafting a list of study topics for visiting fellows. I think it's now being used by SIAI internally, but perhaps eventually a version will be produced for public consumption. For now I'll just try to answer 2 and 4.

What learning actually facilitates achieving something useful or otherwise fulfilling one's CEV?

It seems to me that an important but easily overlooked step to fulfilling one's EV is to figure out what it is. Philosophers haven't found the answer yet, but studying philosophy at least gives you some idea of what kinds of answers people have already considered and found unsatisfactory. I would prefer to do this by reading/skimming books, but if you must take a course...

Which course do you just happen to like?

My favorite university courses were:

My favorite self-taught topics are:

  • micro- and macro-economics
  • cryptography
  • algorithmic information theory
  • decision theory
  • philosophy of science/mind/mathematics/etc.

By "favorite" I mean courses/topics that I had the most fun learning, but these also turned out to be quite useful for my purposes. I might just have been lucky, but you should perhaps consider the possibility that your "impulsive unconscious preference satisfaction" knows what it's doing, and put some thought into what courses would be fun for you.

When I visited SIAI a few months ago, I participated in drafting a list of study topics for visiting fellows. I think it's now being used by SIAI internally, but perhaps eventually a version will be produced for public consumption.

That would be a handy document to have access to. I wonder who I would need to bribe to acquire a copy.

My guess is that for instrumental rationality the optimal courses are dance, yoga, and above all acting. Just don't try to use them as credentials.

(I only recently saw this comment, hence the tardy response to it.)

My guess is that for instrumental rationality the optimal courses are dance, yoga, and above all acting.

What is the relevance that you see in these? I've done yoga for a long time, and apart from mens sana in corpore sano no particular connection with rationality has ever occurred to me. Given that dance and acting are mentioned in the same breath, I suspect that your reasons for including them are something other than the social aspect of dancing in nightclubs or using acting skills for deception. How would the practice of these things assist in, say, solving a scientific research problem, negotiating a house purchase, negotiating the possibility of an intimate relationship, or raising public support for cryonics?

By making you more aware of and more able to deal with, compensate for, control and use emotions, healthier, more energetic, less gullible, etc. Also, in the case of yoga, a better materialist who would propose better hypotheses in mind related subjects and some mechanics related subjects and would be more likely to use analysis and experiment in the right cases.

First, you should take the minimum number of classes necessary for graduation because school is so much less efficient than other learning methods. (For example, you can watch videolectures from the best professors in the world for free at your convenience. Then download the lectures + VLC, change the playback speed, and learn everything 50% faster.)

As long as you are taking classes, you might as well try to learn things that are a good fit for them.

  • Public speaking and acting are good fits for classroom learning.
  • Chemistry classes and some others give you a chance to use materials that would be hard to find on your own.
  • IMO classes involving computers are an awful fit for classroom learning--it's always easier for me to figure out stuff myself. This includes programming. Only take these if you're going for a compsci degree (but, it is a pretty good degree to have as far as I can tell).
  • Take classes by professors that are well-reviewed (see ratemyprofessors.com), especially those with a reputation for high levels of class participation or interesting personalities.
  • Also, it's worth choosing classes based on the classmates you expect to have. So consider taking classes full of smart people like physics and game theory.

As for subject matter, I think I became smarter learning physics and economics basics because I became more comfortable applying math and thinking about things in simple, non-intuitive ways. Economics is particularly great for rationality--microeconomics is essentially an extended description of what the world would be like if we were all rational. It's great to have a cheat sheet. Programming was definitely my biggest ever mindfuck, but as I mentioned it's best learned outside school.

I just graduated from undergrad in mathematics, so perhaps I have less perspective, or perhaps I have a "fresher" perspective! I don't know.

A few classes that I enjoyed without expecting it:

-a class called "Feminism and Science." I would be very surprised if there were classes in feminist science studies at your school, but they have a perspective on rationality and science studies that is unique and valuable.

--relatedly, I wish that I had taken courses in feminism. It wasn't until the last year that I realized how much of feminism deals with things like resolving hidden inferences (first link NSFW!)

--also, science studies classes will almost certainly benefit from having someone from LessWrong in them. So will feminism classes!

-"Politics and Religion," a class about the stale religious metaphors that get used in modern politics. Again you may not have a perfect analog, but a cursory class or two in politics or religion could give a lot of insight about how other people operate, and also expose them to how you operate, if you care about other people's rationality as well. (whereas math classes will be much more homogenous.)

-a topical course from the linguistics department. Linguistics is very, very interesting. When I say a "topical course" I mean I took a course for non-majors which was more of a class in "why people study linguistics" and less in "how people study linguistics." I learned a lot about what makes questions of linguistics important in questions of rationality (again, see hidden inferences above!)

-language classes. I took Japanese, and it was enjoyable, stretched my mind a bit (for reasons detailed in the above class!) and kept my work ethic going. Also let me interact with people from various backgrounds, instead of only math majors.

-Playwriting. I actually expected to enjoy this. Whether it's good for rationality... well there are some applications of behavioral psych, and some ability to learn about how much of the theory of writing actually has a foundation.

classes I wish I had taken but didn't:

-any psychology classes, especially evolutionary psych!

-more linguistics

-more than one computer science course (though I wouldn't want to major in it)

-evolution and ecology

-science fiction-themed literature classes

-I mentioned feminism and science studies earlier

-lots of different languages. Having a designated place and time to speak different languages (at least in my experience) makes it a lot easier to learn, and college is a great opportunity for that that won't come back.

-bioethics, legal studies

-game theory

classes I didn't enjoy as much as I expected:

-real analysis. But that's because I like algebra.

-economics. I once had a TA tell me, when I asked about a question on a test, "well I was grading that problem, and I thought what you had was okay, but the answer key said it was (c) so I marked it off."(sic). I never took another econ class again. Not sure if that would be a problem in other places.

-history. Too much reading and not enough real knowledge.

Repeating stuff I think is important

I think that both feminist studies and linguistics have a lot more potential for carving reality at the joints than, say, mathematical physics. Of course, the background that mathematical physicists have is better for actively doing this, and you might have to fight some cultural battles in feminist studies classes. But rationalists and feminists have a lot in common and I think more crossover is important there.

magfrump:

[C]lasses in feminist science studies [...] have a perspective on rationality [...] that is unique and valuable. [...] It wasn't until the last year that I realized how much of feminism deals with things like resolving hidden inferences...

That's interesting. In my experience, when one attempts to study human mating behavior -- and the human behavioral sexual dimorphism in general -- in a completely detached manner, as if one were a space alien without any agenda or preconceptions, the resulting insights tend to sound shockingly evil from a feminist perspective, and regularly elicit instinctive condemnation with little actual understanding from feminist authors.

Of course, it could be that my view of what constitutes neutral and detached observations is skewed by various biases, or that I am oblivious of more intellectually competent and honest feminist authors. Therefore, I think it would be interesting to see a top-level post, or at least an open thread comment, elaborating on your insights in this area. This with all the usual caveats that apply to politically and ideologically charged topics, of course.

The thing is, "space alien" thought experiments are very hard to do, given that we're not space aliens, and they have come out both ways -- read Joanna Russ for speculative, "alien's-eye" fiction about gender that comes out very feminist.

The closest thing to a genuine "alien's-eye" view of gender and society would have to come from people who perceive both gender and society very differently: perhaps autistics or the transgendered or intersex. Even there it's shaky.

I can't really speak about other specialisations, but mathematical physics seems to me not too beneficial for general thinking skills. I know at least two mathematical physicists who think that the main task in the job is to suppress your intuitions (which isn't itself bad) at any cost (this is worse). So any heuristic argument they dismiss until you have find the correct way to prove it. The obsession with proofs makes mathematical physics (and mathematics in general) in my eyes closer to what is here called Traditional rationality than to Bayesian approach, and a little bit legalistic. Subjects like theoretical physics rely more on intuitions, but still firmly based in reality (well, string theory not so much, but still), and so closer to everyday thinking.

If the school has some "big names" who teach about their area of specialty, consider taking their classes. One of the very important researchers in my field was a professor at my university while I was there, but I had no idea at that time what he did, so I missed out.

1 . Really there are two things you need to get good at. First, there's "rationality" itself, for which you should learn the math and learn about cognitive bias etc. Second, there's the content of your beliefs; in other words, learning everything there is to know. So my answer for #1 is: find a big gap in your knowledge, and fill it.

2 . This is a very complicated question. In the big picture sense, the things that would be of most benefit to you would be things that have a huge impact on the future, like topics relevant to FAI or Transhumanism. You could work on improving the human lifespan and quality of life, or create something that will do that for you.

3 . If you've already done an undergraduate degree in AI, computing, or a field like that, you really should be able to just jump into a master's degree program in fields like Mathematics. Another bachelor's degree in a particular field doesn't make a lot of sense, partially because the main point of a bachelor's degree is to make you a well-rounded person and give you access to a wide variety of perspectives, and you've presumably already done that.

That said, some fields do expect you to have done a lot of specific work during your undergrad, so if you wanted to (say) go into a biotech-related field, you might need to do a bachelor's in a related field first.

4 . Computer science is always fun. Mostly, it's a long stream of interesting toy problems. Ditto for philosophy, but you really need to be at the right school for that to work. (Your generalizations aside, I must agree that philosophers who have done some programming seem superior, though I'm not a good choice for an unbiased opinion).