LESSWRONG

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Princess_Stargirl

10 points

Having done a math PHD and now working as a programmer I find math proofs and programming semi-similar. Though I think programming is less "relaxing." In mathematics if you have an argument that works and isn't insanely complicated you can call yourself victorious. You can look for a simpler method if you want but there is really no imperative to do so. In programming there is almost always a better way to solve a given problem and the differences in speed matter alot.

10 points

fowlertm

3 points

My two cents: I studied math pretty intensively on my own and later started programming. To my pleasant surprise, the thinking style involved in math transmitted almost directly over into programming. I'd imagine that the inverse is also true.

3 points

paper-machine

2 points

Indeed, many people cross forward and backward between the two.

2 points

3 points

This is a fascinating perspective.

For me, optimizing code (both style and performance) can, at times, almost feel like gardening (aka relaxing and theraputic). On the other hand, I really like math, yet I've generally found that it requires WAY more effort than programming.

Perhaps this is why you have a math PhD and I don't ;-)

3 points

gjm

5 points

I have a mathematics PhD and have worked in academic research, industrial mathematics and software development. I agree with Princess_Stargirl that mathematics and programming feel quite similar, but for me mathematics is less relaxing because it's harder. Yes, it's great when you "have an argument that works and isn't insanely complicated", but until you get one you don't even know that it exists. Which is stressful if your pay, or reputation, or career prospects, happen to be governed by your success in finding such things.

(Whether, and how far, the same is true in programming depends on exactly how you define "programming". If you take it to mean the whole process of going from nothing at all to high-quality software, then it does share that characteristic with mathematics. But the very researchy open-ended work is a smaller fraction of programming than of mathematics, and there are people happily and productively employed as programmers who do scarcely any of it at all.)

5 points

John_Maxwell_IV

1 point

In programming there is almost always a better way to solve a given problem and the differences in speed matter alot.

Do you mean development speed or execution speed? Either way, I'd guess it depends a lot on the application you're working on and/or the culture of your organization.

1 point

Dias

7 points

pick-pocketing

If you add "socially useful" or "not immoral" obviously this is excluded.

7 points

Kindly

8 points

High barrier to entry. I expect that at my current skill level I'd get caught pick-pocketing the first time I tried it, and that would impact my ability to try it a second time.

8 points

pinyaka

4 points

I would expect that you could probably practice on a targets that won't call the cops on you first (you could try reaching into large jacket pockets or purses and removing appropriate objects to make sure you don't jostle them). I am not a thief, have never pick-pocketed anyone and this was just the first idea that popped into my head.

4 points

robeenp

0 points

As a first idea that popped into your head that's not so bad. You can practice at home first.

0 points

0 points

No, you practice first. For instance, when I was a magician and trying to do watch steals, I would wrap a towel around a broom handle, put the watch around that, and practice the motion over and over again before I tried to do it in the real world.

0 points

James_Miller

6 points

Dating

6 points

imuli

6 points

You cannot date independently. Dating requires at least one other person. One of the amazing things about programming is that I can sit down anywhere at any time and create. Computers are handy, but even pencil and paper will do in a pinch.

6 points

0 points

They have online dating now. Yuo can prety much do this at any time you can do programming.

0 points

passive_fist

1 point

I guess the major difference would be that dating doesn't give you rapid feedback.

1 point

Remontoire

1 point

It does if you interpret James's comment to mean interactions with romantic intent.

Dating a single person for a long time is akin to managing a team of developers (sure, you don't get quick feedback) and chatting to someone you don't know in a book store is like quickly compiling something in a new language.

1 point

2 points

That... definitely explains my failure at "dating a single person for a long time" and my (relative) success at "chatting to someone you don't know".

2 points

passive_fist

1 point

Well, it might not really count as useful feedback if you just get a segmentation fault without any explanation what went wrong.

1 point

5 points

It seems like you just really like programming.

There's a seemingly limitless amount of skills that fit these criteria:

Languages
Writing
Understanding History
Math (Huge Umbrella Here)
Any circus game
Science( Another Huge Umbrella)
Any game of skill that you can make money from(chess, poker, checkers, go, etc.)
Any self-defense sport. (any sport if you consider the slim chance of going pro as "useful in the real world) (many include expensive equipment, but few that are more than the cost of a computer and a year of internet)
Public Speaking
Improv
Psychology
Cold Reading
Active Listening
Improving Sex Skills
Posture Training
Storytelling
Knot Tying
Cooking

I think I could keep listing... it's hard for me to think of skills that don't fit this criteria.

5 points

Creutzer

3 points

Lots of those fail many of the criteria listed in the OP. Check again.

3 points

0 points

Checked it again, this sentence is still there:

"I mean this in the sense of "activities that also satisfy the above criteria", but suggestions don't have to satisfy ALL of the criteria. Here are some of the first ideas that come to mind when I try to answer the question myself:"

Most of those criteria are extremely subjective - For instance, many people would say that programming needs expensive equipment, a specific location, and is nerdy instead of badass.

Similarly, all of the subjects above can fit all the criteria when you know what you're doing, how to practice them and how to use them.

0 points

Punoxysm

3 points

Personal financial literacy (single most important factor for long-term wealth building)
Basic understanding of nutrition and exercise (the caveat is that there's a LOT of bad information or irrelevant information out there. Going from zero to some knowledge is hugely beneficial).
Meditation (you can immediately observe the novelty of meditating if you have never done it before; I won't say it's incredibly useful but it can be nice)
Household repair (look up how to fix something yourself whenever the opportunity comes up; use your judgment though)

3 points

Good_Burning_Plastic

3 points

The feedback some of those give isn't that rapid, though.

3 points

g_pepper

2 points

I disagree with the statement that electronics "is basically still programming". There are similarities between the two, but also significant differences; particularly if you consider electronics outside of the digital realm.

I also do not understand why you question whether math is "useful in the real world". I imagine that anyone involved in engineering, science, finance, artificial intelligence, marketing or a great many other "real world" occupations would vouch for the usefulness of mathematics.

2 points

solipsist

2 points

Salesmanship

2 points

3 points

Upvoted. This is the 3rd time in the last week that I've heard someone mention sales as a useful skill, but how do you train it short of actually getting a job in sales?

3 points

ChristianKl

0 points

You can switch to buying your groceries at a farmers market where you can negotiate price.

I also know someone who brought a bunch of WoW Gold on ebay and then practiced buying and selling WoW items to practice his sales skills.

0 points

taryneast

1 point

Snap - yeah I was thinking "Sales"

Passes all the criteria above except maybe "frequent rewards" (It's a field known for high rejections) and maybe "baddassery". That said it has an even higher "useful" criteria.

1 point

Tenoke

1 point

Statistics seems to satisfy all/almost all of those.

1 point

ChristianKl

0 points